P2P Connects Us Episode 14 – Pokereum

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On today’s episode we’re going to be talking about Califonia’s attempt to institutionalize a bitcoin business cartel, the release of the MercurcyEx decentralized exchange and DNSChain 0.5, the addition of bitcoin to TAILS OS, and last but certainly not least, Ola and Patrick from Pokereum join the show to tell us about their peer-to-peer solution to the mental poker problem.

[PETITION] Save Buttonwood SF: Withdraw AB-1326

Bitcoin: Be Your Own Bank book

Episode Sponsor: Roolo.io, P2P Bitcoin Exchange

Free Ross

California attempts to institutionalize a bitcoin business cartel

MercuryEx

DNSChain 0.5 release

TAILS adds Electrum bitcoin wallet

Pokereum

Pokereum Whitepaper

Patreon patron LTBcoin giveaway program

P2P Connects Us Patreon Campaign

P2P Connects Us Twitter

P2P Connects Us Soundcloud

P2P Connects Us YouTube

Content for today’s episode was provided by John Light, Oladapo Ajayi, and Patrick Mazzotta

Music for today’s episode was “Curbside Killers” by Pskov

Community Transcription by P.H. Madore

Welcome to episode 14 of the P2P Connects Us podcast.

I’m your host, John Light, and on today’s episode we’re going to be talking about California’s attempt to institutionalize the Bitcoin business cartel; the release of the MercuryEx Decentralized Exchange and DNSChain 0.5; the addition of Bitcoin to TAILS OS; and last, but certainly not least, Ola and Patrick from Pokereum join the show to tell us about their peer-to-peer solution to the mental poker problem.

Hello, hello, hello and welcome once again to episode 14 of the P2P Connects Us podcast. You can support this show by becoming a patron of the P2P Connects Us Patreon campaign. All patrons who send me a copy of their Patreon receipt, along with a Bitcoin address from Counterwallet.io, are eligible to participate in my LTBCoin giveaway program. This past weekend, 39,770 LTBCoin and change were given away to five patrons of the P2P Connects Us Patreon campaign who sent in their Counterwallet addresses. If you’d like to become a patron and participate in the giveaway, you can find the full details at Patreon.com/P2PConnectsUs.

Big thanks to everyone who supports the show. I’d like to support you back. If you’re working on a peer-to-peer project or use peer-to-peer philosophy or technology to improve your life, write me your story and I’ll share it on the show so the audience can learn more about how peer-to-peer ideas can be valuable to them. I’ve been getting some good responses since the last episode and already have some great interviews lined up thanks to messages from P2P Connects Us listeners. So keep them coming.

P2P Connects Us is looking for content creators. I’m paying 50,000 LTBCoin for high-quality videos, 25,000 LTBCoin for audio content, and 15,000 LTBCoin for written articles. All work published will be released under a copyleft license so that it’s free to remix and redistribute as long as any derivatives or copies are also released copyleft. If you’re interested in sharing your own perspectives on peer-to-peer philosophy, technology, and culture, please contact me through the contact page on my website at P2PConnects.us.

For the last few episodes, I’ve mentioned that I’m looking for writers to help transcribe episodes of P2P Connects Us and today, I’m happy to announce that listener P. H. Madore has stepped up to do this for each episode. He has been hard at work transcribing past episodes, both the news segments and the interviews, and will be transcribing future episodes as well. You can check out more work from from Mr. Madore at cryptocoinsnews.com.

On the last episode of P2P Connects Us, Special #2, I announced the release of version one of my new book, BYOB: Using Bitcoin to be Your Own Bank. This release marks the beginning of a public review period on my way to the official first edition release of the book. I’m going to be putting the full contents of the book on Github, so that people who are interested in collaborating to complete it can file issues and send me pull requests for suggested changes. You can download a PDF of the book and subscribe to announcements on the website today at BitcoinBYOB.com.

Today’s episode is brought to you in part by Roolo.io, a new peer-to-peer Bitcoin exchange that lets you find traders in your area to meet and buy or sell bitcoins. From the Roolo team, “We are a new peer-to-peer Bitcoin exchange based in London. Our aim is to provide a more competitive, secure, and convenient way to buy and sell Bitcoin while embracing the inherent peer-to-peer philosophy of Bitcoin. We currently offer pounds, Euros, US dollars, and Canadian dollars, and take a flat fee of half a percent. We are working on opening up to other currencies and are in the process of implementing full multi-sig wallets to offer a truly peer-to-peer experience. As a new site, we would love people to try it out and any feedback from the community will be greatly appreciated. We tip. You can contact for feedback on Twitter @Roolo_UK or Reddit at r/roolo.”

Since Roolo is a new and unproven service, I suggest only trading small amounts of Bitcoin at first. That said, I look forward to seeing them implement their multi-sig wallet so that people will not have to worry about losing Bitcoin to hacks or thefts from the Roolo wallet, as has happened before on competing websites such as LocalBitcoins. Thanks a lot, Roolo, for your support and welcome to the community.

You can follow the show on Twitter, @p2pconnectsus, subscribe to the P2P Connects Us YouTube channel and SoundCloud page, and sign up for e-mail alerts each time new content is posted on the P2P Connects Us blog by entering your e-mail in the sign-up form at P2PConnects.us.

Finally, before we move on to the next segment, I would like to take a moment to correct a mistake that I’ve made. I realized when I was reviewing the transcript for Episode 11, that in the story about Ross Ulbricht’s conviction on seven charges stemming from his involvement in the operation of the Silk Road, I mentioned that he still has not been tried for the murder-for-hire charge that he faces in Baltimore. But then went on to speak as though it were a certainty that he had committed the crime. The fact is, it is still just an allegation that he hired hit men to kill people.

Even if Ross receives a guilty verdict on this count, it would still not be clear that he actually ever hired hit men. The only evidence that law enforcement has provided are messages from the Silk Road website from someone claiming to be the Dread Pirate Roberts to someone claiming to be from the Hell’s Angels. This supposed Hell’s Angels gang member would go on to offer the services of hit men to take out a troublesome Silk Road vendor, an offer that the state alleges that Ross accepted and paid for with Bitcoin worth over half a million dollars at the time. The problem with this case is that these messages are neither adequately time-stamped nor are they are GPG-signed with DPR’s private key. Some are pointing to a Bitcoin transaction referenced in the messages as evidence that he hired someone to make a hit, yet a transaction in the block chain lacks the adequate context needed to prove what it was used for. Was the transaction actually a payment to a supposed hit man? Or was it a payment for something else?

The journal that was found on Ross’s computer hinted that he had grand ambitions for the Silk Road brand, including the expansion into new, anonymous Bitcoin exchange services. Shouts out to Julia Transky, aka BraveTheWorld for bringing this to my attention. Perhaps those Bitcoin exchanges linked in the Hell’s Angel’s messages were actually payments to developers who were working on these new services. Perhaps they were just payments to one of Ross’s own wallets. We cannot know for sure and perhaps we never will. At least not until Ross gets his day in court and is finally able to speak freely without the threat of having his words used against him in this case.

You can support Ross by sending him money for his legal defense or writing to him in prison. All of the info about him and his case can be found at FreeRoss.org. With those announcements out of the way, let’s move on to the news.

News Stories

The top story today comes to us from the state I hate to love, my beautiful homeland of California. First, some context.

On Independence Day 2013, I held the first ever Buttonwood SF Meet-up, a face-to-face Bitcoin trading meet-up, not unlike the Satoshi Squares held elsewhere all around the world. Then in May, 2014, in response to a story which claimed that Ross Ulbricht had attended Buttonwood to sell his Silk Road bitcoins, I was quoted by Forbes reporter Cashmere Hill as saying, “If it turns into an act of civil disobedience to trade Bitcoin at Buttonwood, I would question if that’s the type of world I want to live in.”

Well, if California State Assembly member Matthew Dababneh gets his way, that will be the type of world that all Californians will be living in. Assembly member Dababneh has introduced a bill, AB1326 which, “Would prohibit a person from engaging in this state in the business of virtual currency.” Without either a mandatory or a special exemption from the state. Banks, licensed money transmitters, specific state agencies, and merchants who accept Bitcoin for goods and services are among those excluded. Retail Bitcoin traders such as those who attend Buttonwood SF are not.

I have posted a petition on Change.org requesting that Assembly member Dababneh withdraw his bill and further requesting that the state legislature consider against introducing in the future any similar legislation which would impose upon Bitcoin businesses any special regulation, registration, or licensing requirements. If you support the free trade of Bitcoin among private individuals and businesses, please sign my petition and share it with your personal and professional social networks. Should AB1326 pass, I will have little choice but to shut down Buttonwood SF for fear of political persecution. Your signature and feedback is greatly appreciated. All of the info is linked in the show notes.

On the positive side of the news, some exciting peer-to-peer software has been released since the last episode, including the first release of the MercuryEx decentralized exchange and DNSChain version 0.5. First, MercuryEx.

This is perhaps the first working version of a cryptocurrency wallet that does atomic cross-chain exchanges between Bitcoin and altcoins. This means that when matching orders for two different cryptocurrencies are placed by two parties using the MercuryEx software, the exchange will fully complete automatically. Both parties will receive the assets they placed an order for at the same time. So there’s no question of who goes first and no need for a central party to act as an escrow agent. This has the potential to dis-intermediate all centralized altcoin exchanges and brokers and give full control back to the cryptocurrency traders. Now they just need to figure out how to do this between fiat and crypto. Until then, of course, there’s always Bitsquare, which was featured in episode 10, Coinfeine, and similar decentralized exchange projects working on peer-to-peer fiat to crypto exchange. In any case, you can find more information about MercuryEx, including a link to the software download, in the MercuryEx link in the show notes.

Next up, we have the DNSChain 0.5 release, a huge update from 0.4 that comes with many new features and improvements. I’ve discussed DNSChain several times before on the show, and even had lead developer Greg Slepak on for a guest interview in episode 4. For those who aren’t yet familiar, the basic idea of DNSChain is using block chain technology to dis-intermediate the domain name registrars and certificate authorities that perpetuate insecurity and take away people’s control of their digital identity on the Internet. I recommend checking out that interview with Greg Slepak from episode 4 if you’re interested in learning more.

From the blog post on okturtles.org announcing the DNSChain 0.5 release, “1. It has full support for HTTPS look-ups and it uses a one pin to rule them all approach, which makes it possible to secure all other Internet connections and protect them from all ‘non-fundamental man-in-the-middle attacks.’ 2. A basic implementation of the open name resolver specification brings support for doing arbitrary block chain lookups. The API makes it possible for app developers to create secure applications that are as easy to use as their non-secure counterparts. 3. We’ve made it super simple to add support for arbitrary block chains.”

You can check out the software and read the full release notes by clicking the DNSChain link in the show notes.

Also exciting in peer-to-peer crypto land, the privacy-centric TAILS operating system recently added the open-source Bitcoin wallet Electrum to the 1.3 release of the Amnesiac Incognito Live System. Electrum is what’s known as a light client, which eliminates the need to download the full Bitcoin block chain by relying on a server run by the user or a trusted third-party to send and receive Bitcoin transaction information. All that’s needed to back-up the wallet is to memorize or write down a phrase that forms the seed of the wallet. The wallet gives you 12 words by default, but you can make it any phrase that would be easy for you to remember but hard for others to guess. This allows you to create what’s known as a brain wallet, which can be saved and transported simply by using the power of your mind. This is a welcome addition to TAILS and I hope to see additional privacy-protecting Bitcoin features such as CoinShuffle and Stealth Addresses added in the future as well.

Every day that goes by, the infrastructure of the peer-to-peer economy gets stronger, laying the groundwork for a better world by offering resilient alternatives to the central points of control and failure that have held society back for so long. The future will be decentralized.

Interview

[John Light] I would like to welcome to the P2P Connects Us Ola Ajayi and Patrick Mazzotta of the Pokereum project. Guys, welcome to the show.

[Ola Ajayi] Thank you.

[Patrick Mazzotta] Thanks for having us.

[John Light] It’s my pleasure. I really want to find out about this Pokereum project, but first, I want to ask, what does peer-to-peer mean to you?

[Ola Ajayi] So, peer-to-peer, to me, means, for the first time in the history of mankind, and of the Internet, we have unrestricted global communications, and global commerce between groups of people anywhere in the world, you know, on the planet, without any need for permission. This does not mean that we facilitate bad actors, it just means that this free market that’s emerging will create solutions to kind of weed out these people.

[John Light] Cool, do you have anything to add, Patrick?

[Patrick Mazzotta] I think of peer-to-peer as the ultimate in connectivity, where there’s no middlemen, and people can do what they want, whether it’s sending messages, sending files, or sending money, from one person to the other, directly. And not having to worry about intermediaries.

[John Light] With those kinds of definitions of peer-to-peer in mind, what is Pokereum, and how is Pokereum relevant to the listeners of P2P Connects Us?

[Ola Ajayi] Pokereum, in essence, is a provably fair decentralized poker platform that uses smart contracts and a unique consensus system to solve the mental poker problem. This means that it uses these tools to do away with trust or third-parties. So essentially, we’re replacing third-parties with smart contracts.

[John Light] At a high level, then, how does Pokereum work?

[Ola Ajayi] Pokereum works by using smart contracts, a consensus system, and proof-of-stake and activity to provide security between card players and make sure that cards that are dealt at the start of the game are the same cards that are revealed at the end of the game.

[Patrick Mazzotta] Yeah, I think one of the big things to remember about Pokereum is that we’re taking a solution that’s been highly theoretical over the past couple of years and we’ve found a way to implement it using peer-to-peer technologies mostly driven by Ethereum to get these people connected together and playing these games. It’s a – a pretty brilliant solution that Ola’s come up with and I’m really excited to help bring it out and get people playing poker in a comfortable, reliable, and affordable way.

[John Light] So – to the end user, it’s going to feel like any other kind of online poker experience but under the hood, this is all happening totally peer-to-peer without any sort of centralized trusted platform?

[Ola Ajayi] Yes.

[Patrick Mazzotta] Exactly.

[John Light] Wow, that sounds really powerful. So Ola, first, could you explain the problem that you mentioned a little bit earlier and then explain the solution that you have come up with?

[Ola Ajayi] Alright. So, I’ll be glad to explain. The problem is – it’s well-known and it’s out there. There are a lot of people who have written papers and proposed solutions to the problem of how do you play a game over a distance without a trusted third-party? So, how do you play rock, paper, scissors, how do you play a game of cards, how do you flip a coin between two people, over a distance, in two separate locations, multiple locations, and still know that the other person is telling the truth?

The solution to this problem has been explored a lot of times by academics. They have proposed several solutions using commutative encryption between parties, some trust-less, non-encrypted shuffling protocols. And also by using – making assumptions that trusted third-servers aren’t going to collude – essentially by using multiple servers to kind of shuffle and encrypt cards and deal the cards to players and make an assumption that these third party’s servers are not colluding.

All of these solutions are valid but most of the time they fall short in terms of not being efficient enough or not being the best solution in terms of being trustworthy to the end user.

[John Light] Sure.

[Ola Ajayi] In the case of trusted third-parties.

So what Pokereum does is – we substituted that last solution of making assumptions about trusted third-parties by taking out the trusted party equation and replacing those with smart contracts. And when you do that, you essentially leave the grunt work of shuffling and coming up with encrypted permutation of cards and the dealing of cards to trust-less agents who are transparent and cannot be changed by anybody, inside of an organization or outside the organization, but can be read through a poker client.

[John Light] And right now you have decided to create this protocol – this distributed application – on top of the Ethereum platform, is that right?

[Ola Ajayi] Yes. We decided to go with the Ethereum platform because the Ethereum platform is a robust solution so far for the project. This was previously a NXT-based project. It was supposed to be built on top of NXT, but the plan for a smart contract on the NXT platform is not going to be developed any time soon, and so we made the decision to kind of pivot away and use something that was more established, has run in testnet, has extended documentation, and, you know, support for the most of the infrastructure that we’re going to be needing. And so Ethereum turns out to be the most viable solution to aid us in our development, basically.

[John Light] Now, typically when I think of smart contracts, especially on a block chain, I think of a situation where everything that’s happening within the contracts is transparent to the end users because it’s all written into the contracts. So can you explain how, when, like when cards are dealt – how it is that players do not know what cards all of the other players have in this system – and maybe at a technical level, how it is that the – that the shuffling and the turning over of cards and the game is actually played.

[Ola Ajayi] There is a mechanism by which the process for the card generation is – is initiated. So there is these things called the jury pools and basically what they are are a subset of the network and they basically are nodes on the network who have certain characteristics and because of that, they get to perform certain actions.

And so hypothetically or theoretically, at a table, or at a table game, the jury pools send a message to a system of contracts in charge of the encryption of cards, and the message contains a combination of a random seed generated from each of those nodes in the juror pool. And when that message is received, that message is used as a seed to the random generation of cards on the contract. And cards, in this case, is not cards in the sense of, you know, the full representation of a card – it can be an arbitrary set of numbers representing a deck of cards, and those are basically encrypted and shuffled using the seed and stored with a set permutation and a set number of keys to decrypt those cards. And so when the time necessitates for a table to kind of request the dealing of cards to each subsequent player, that can be enacted and the location for each player card can be directly referred by the contract to the juror pools and then the player, which are downloaded synchronously to each player with the set of keys matching each set of cards.

[John Light] Where can people find the white paper if they’re interested in reading more into the details of this system?

[Ola Ajayi] So the white paper is going to be located on a Google Docs for more public review. But there will be a link to it from the website. Pokereum.io.

[John Light] Okay, great. And so – Ola, how did you come up with this idea – were you into Cryptocurrency first and thought this idea can be applied to poker? Or were you into poker and you were thinking of how to do this and you came across cryptocurrency?

[Ola Ajayi] So, to answer that question, I think I first have to explain my background. My background is in – entrepreneurship and web development. And – I started a company earlier in 2010 with about ten developers and we built a pretty nice consumer-facing product without any kind of funding. And so with that going down and not seeing any kind of traction, I turned to cryptocurrencies. Early in 2010, I heard about Bitcoin but I, you know, I didn’t get involved that deeply. I bought some but I didn’t get involved in the development or anything like that.

It was late in 2012 when I started delving deeply into the intricacies of Bitcoin. After awhile, I decided to come up with an idea to solve the decentralized exchange problem. But down the line, I realized that this is a chicken and egg problem. We don’t have users in the cryptocurrency space, what kind of value are you providing? And, you know, what kind of value are you really providing to the world? And, you know, this got me thinking about some kind of problem I can solve to kind of, you know, bring more users into cryptocurrency as a whole, and, basically, improve the use of cryptocurrency. And at the same time, solve a big problem that’s out there.

So while I was going through the laundry list of, you know, my activities and hobbies and things I like to do, I realized that poker was one of the perfect use cases and this was a problem that can be the most effective solved by cryptocurrency. It can be the perfect fit in terms of user adoption, transitioning from mainstream users to cryptocurrencies, because most poker players already used to digital currencies in any number of various forms.

This was the conclusion for me, that poker was one of the first applications that’s going to bring in a majority of users into cryptocurrencies, and so I went down the path of doing a lot of research and coming to the conclusion that using previous specified solutions to the mental poker problem, using commutative encryptions and other suggestions were not going to be feasible. And so I – I came to the conclusion that the only way it would be possible is to use something that was completely autonomous, like smart contracts, where you can offload some of the competencies – you know, to things that were autonomous and run continuously without any bias or any intervention from an administrator or, you know, any outside influence.

Over a year and a half, I did a lot of research and kind of came to the conclusion that I definitely needed smart contracts. At the time, NXT was talking about implementing smart contracts but gradually that got moved to the wayside for other goals, and I started looking at Ethereum as a potential solution. And as Ethereum pushed on and continued with the development and involvement, the idea and the goal kept on moving on and becoming more of a reality for me as time went on.

[John Light] It sounds like a really great fit because what the needs that you described, I think, are definitely fulfilled by the block chain, as a kind of autonomous, neutral platform that these kinds of transactions can be executed on. Now, Patrick, what is your role in the Pokereum project and how did you get involved?

[Patrick Mazzotta] I first got in touch with Ola when he was looking for core developers for the project late last year. And as I talked to him more and more and learned more and more about the project and his vision for the project, I became – well, obviously, really excited and with every passing week I got more and more buy-in from my own mental, I guess you could call it the mental space of what is on my plate and how much of it should go to Pokereum.

Eventually, what it led to is me coming on as architect for most of the back-end work related to Pokereum – dealing with how to organize the smart contracts, to scope contracts and their interactions with each other, and with the player clients and all that kind of stuff. It’s been a pretty fun ride. Reading the white paper, giving a little bit of feedback with Ola and – on what the core concept is and how to work on some of the math.

I mean, one thing I can say, a lot of people like playing poker, but people don’t necessarily realize how much math is behind poker. And when we talk about things like the mental poker problem and stuff like that, it’s easy to visualize the trivial concept of two people in two separate rooms trying to play a game together. But then when you break down all of the math that goes behind the step-by-step encryption to reviewing cards one at a time and stuff like that, it gets pretty heavy. So I can say, when Ola says he’s done a bit of time researching the problem, he’s being pretty modest about how much research and how much thought he’s actually put into this project.

[John Light] Yeah, I mean, it sounds really impressive. I know some people who are working independently on their own peer-to-peer poker project, and it’s definitely a challenge. That’s one of the reasons why I was particularly intrigued by Ola’s white paper and the – the solution that he’s come up with here. So, how far along is the development of the Pokereum system, Patrick?

[Patrick Mazzotta] You could break down the project into a couple of different streams. Right? We have the interface design, we have the front-end client, programming logic, and then we have the smart contract back-end, and then there’s some infrastructure work related to integrating some, like, stats from the smart contracts into the website and stuff like that. Most of the architectural work is in late stages of finalization. Ground has been broken on the UI and ground has been broken on the front-end client. Prototypes have been started with the smart contracts, but we’re looking to dive in heavily over the next two months to take the prototypes into initial draft phases.

[John Light] What are the next steps for Pokereum and how can listeners get involved?

[Ola Ajayi] One thing I failed to mention. Pokereum is not a just a poker project. It’s supposed to be – or it’s going to be – a community-driven project, which means that it’s going to managed by a decentralized, autonomous organization, which means people working together as a collective, and basically voting and directing the movement and development of the poker app. For this to be successful, that needs to be in place, and that infrastructure – the community-driven kind of motto needs to be embraced. Without that, it’s going to be hard to kind of, you know, do this with a couple of developers. And so there – there is a DAO, a decentralized autonomous organization forming, it’s still in its early stages. And so if people want to find out more about it, just head over to the website. By the time this interview is posted, the links for – to get – how to get involved and how to be part of the DAO will be updated.

[John Light] So, do you have a platform in mind for what you’re going to use? Is the DAO itself going to be a smart contract on Ethereum or are you just going to have like a forum on the website? What’s the infrastructure that people can be using?

[Ola Ajayi] So the DAO is going to ideally be using the Ethereum platform, alongside a forum, ideally, a stand-alone forum, but for now, in the meantime, it’s going to be using the NXT platform and the NXT forums.

[John Light] Okay. So you mentioned that this kind of mental poker problem – or the problem of how do two people in two different places play the same game – is applicable to more games than just poker. How easy or how hard would it be to modify the work that you’ve done here to be applicable to other games of skill or chance?

[Patrick Mazzotta] That’s actually a really great question. So that’s something that really – the wheels started turning in my head only a couple of weeks after talking, first talking to Ola. A part of what we’re looking to do is – we’re not going to over-engineer this system to be everything to everyone, but there are definitely going to be components of the smart contract infrastructure that will be able to be used by other teams. Our goal is to actually support Pokereum and through support Pokereum, enable the trust-less gaming thought space to grow and have additional teams participate with us in the idea of trust-less systems.

[John Light] So like having some sort of modularity to the contracts to allow you to swap in and out different games, something like that?

[Patrick Mazzotta] Yeah, exactly. We’re – we’re – I wouldn’t say we’re going to have drop-in hot swapability right out the gate, but this is a forethought that’s going into the current architecture now. So we’re going to scale into that pretty easily.

[John Light] How is this project going to be funded? Is it boot-strapped? Is it just going to be like any other open source project, where it’s mostly a volunteer community effort, or do you plan on doing crowd-funding? How is this – how is this getting off the ground and getting to completion?

[Patrick Mazzotta] Ola mentioned that the DAO is in its early stages. There’s a board that’s assembled and growing right now. They’re working on building a funding plan. I’m not on the board so I don’t have all the specific details but my understanding is that there will be some crowd-funding elements that will be released and announced through the website, and then we might touch base with you and let you know when, if we’re doing something like that, we’ll let you guys know and let your audience know when that’s going to happen and how they can get involved when the decision comes down from the board.

I can tell you as a member of the core team, a lot of what we’re doing up to now for the past several months has been volunteer-oriented. We’ll – depending on how fund-raising goes and stuff like that, and the votes that come out of the DAO, will determine how – how the organization moves forward in building the project.

[John Light] Okay, yeah, that makes sense. Have you guys reached out to any people from the legacy or traditional online gaming community at all, to get feedback on this project, or has it mostly been from decentralized application kind of people?

[Ola Ajayi] There have been no reaching out to the – but we plan to. I think a lot of them will be interested, like, especially, I forget his name now, but there is a famous guy in the cryptocurrency space, he has – he owns a gaming platform.

[John Light] Jez?

[Ola Ajayi] Yeah, yeah, yeah, him, yeah.

[John Light] Jez San?

[Ola Ajayi] Yeah, Jez San, yeah, basically. I’m sure he would be excited about this idea.

[John Light] Yeah, it makes sense. I mean, right now, you’re still in the white paper phase, so, maybe once you’re closer to actually having like an application that’s something that they can get excited about. Do you have anything you’d like to add before we close out the interview?

[Ola Ajayi] Yes, a key point I wanted to add is the fact that Pokereum is built – or, designed – to be coin agnostic, meaning that any coin community can work together with the – with one of the system of smart contracts in the Pokereum contract set to develop a plug-in to enable – any coin to be able to be used on the Pokereum platform. So basically it’s going to increase the utility of any coin that is willing to become part of this project. And that’s the way we want to go, we want to kind of increase use and enable people to kind of promote the project, as one of their projects, and, in turn, increase utility of their coins.

[John Light] That makes a lot of sense. So do those coins need to support smart contracts the way that Ethereum is natively supporting contracts, or is this a system that runs separately from the token that’s actually being used?

[Ola Ajayi] No, it would be – just a system of contracts built and they would have to interface with our contract plug-in and also another, external system called Ether X, which is basically a decentralized exchange built on Ethereum. It’s an open-source project being built right now. And so basically with the combination of all these components, any user of any cryptocoin, can pay and basically get poker coins and play, you know, a poker game on the Pokereum network.

[John Light] Cool, well it sounds like you guys have thought through this quite a bit and that you’re at – you’re going to be adding a lot of value to the cryptocurrency ecosystem once this project is actually done. Once again, I’d like to thank you guys for coming on the show and I really look forward to seeing what comes next.

[Patrick Mazzotta] Thanks for having us.

[Ola Ajayi] Thanks for having us.

Thanks for tuning in to episode 14 of the P2P Connects Us podcast. If you have any comments or questions, you can reach me through the contact page on my website, at P2PConnects.us. Until next time.

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