On today’s episode we’re going to be talking about the immortal Pirate Bay’s revival, Project Maelstrom and the new internets, okTurtles relaunch and the BlockchainID project, and last but certainly not least, Richard Myers joins the show to talk about the Bitsquare p2p bitcoin exchange.
Content for today’s episode was provided by John Light and Richard Myers
Music for today’s episode was “Curbside Killers” by Pskov
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With those announcements out of the way, let’s move on to the news
The Pirate Bay is back online
A month and a half after the December 9th raid which seized servers and took down the infamous Pirate Bay filesharing website, the pirates are back again, albeit with a “slimmed down” version of their website. Just days before the relaunch of piratebay.se, former staffers told the news site Torrent Freak that they were being denied access from the new site so that it would be easier to maintain, warning that the lack of moderation could lead to spam and malicious torrent files being uploaded. Instead, the former Pirate Bay staffers would be launching their own full moderated website using a data backup they copied before the raid. Internal drama notwithstanding, it appears that there has been minimal data loss since the raid on the original Pirate Bay website, with users still being able to log in to their old accounts.
Shortly before the relaunch of the Pirate Bay, Isohunt, the core developers of the Old Pirate Bay project mentioned in episode 8 of this podcast, announced a $100,000 giveaway contest for contributors to the Old Pirate Bay website, including developers who contribute to the open source project and moderators and uploaders who help maintain the website. Isohunt said that they would keep Old Pirate Bay alive even if the original site came back online, so we’ll see whether or not they’ll keep the $100,000 giveaway going when they upgrade the site in March.
Bittorrent Inc announces Project Maelstrom Alpha
Bittorrent Inc, developers of the peer-to-peer Bittorrent filesharing protocol, has announced invite-only access to Project Maelstrom, a project that “started with a simple question. What if more of the web worked the way BitTorrent does?” Project Maelstrom is a modified version of the Google Chrome browser that can load websites using bittorrent files, making websites resistant to denial-of-service attacks and helping popular websites load faster the same way that popular torrent files download faster when more peers are sharing the files.
This is similar to the as-yet unreleased browser originally announced by developers of the Pirate Bay back in 2014. A spokesperson for the Pirate Bay said then, “The goal is to create a browser-like client to circumvent censorship, including domain blocking, domain confiscation, IP-blocking. This will be accomplished by sharing all of a site’s indexed data as P2P downloadable packages, that are then browsed/rendered locally,” “It’s basically a browser-like app that uses webkit to render pages, BitTorrent to download the content while storing everything locally,”
Maidsafe, whose developer evangelist Paige Peterson was recently featured on Episode 6 of this podcast, is working on a similar product, though their applications go beyond just web browsing to include messaging, asset exchanges, marketplaces, and more.
Another project called ZeroNet also released an early version of similar software, which lets people create a website using a combination of Bittorrent and Bitcoin technology.
It’s incredibly exciting to see so many smart developers tackling the problem of censorship on the web using peer-to-peer technology, and highlights how powerful peer-to-peer can be in the right hands.
No matter which version of this technology ends up gaining the biggest network effect, either way the world will be a better place.
okTurtles Foundation launches website redesign, announces BlockchainID project
The okTurtles Foundation has launched their new website redesign at okturtles.org with help from web designer Will Stanley, developer and okTurtles co-founder Greg Slepak, and yours truly. The Foundation is now accepting bitcoin and credit card donations on the website at okturtles.org/donations – anything you can send our way to help support our mission of securing the internet with block chain technology is greatly appreciated. There’s also new DNSChain documentation on the Github page thanks to the hard work of Mike Boca. OkTurtles has also announced the BlockchainID project, which extends the OpenName p2p identity protocol to offer a new, convenient way to log-in to websites using an OpenName identity. You can learn more about DNSChain and p2p, block chain-based identity by listening to my interview with Greg Slepak in Episode 5 of P2P Connects Us.
Interview transcription by LTB community member faceface
If you would like to transcribe an episode or help edit any transcriptions, visit the offer thread in the Let’s Talk Bitcoin forums.
John: I would like to welcome to episode 10 of the P2P Connects Us podcast, Richard Myers, of Bitsquare. Richard thanks for coming on the show.
Richard: Hi. Thanks, John.
John: Richard, what does peer to peer mean to you?
Richard: For us, peer to peer is no central point of failure, or no single point of failure. It’s decentralized. It’s sort of, what we think is the future really, the future of community owned applications, community owned networks.
John: We tend to agree with that perspective here at P2P Connects Us! So, what is Bitsquare?
Richard: Bitsquare is, what we think is the next evolution of the interface between Bitcoin, or pretty much any crypto currency, and the legacy banking system. There’s currently no good alternative for that, getting in and out of Bitcoin from national currencies, and that’s what we hope to provide, and we’re, I think it’s very timely right now, because you’ve seen the hacks, Mt. Gox, of course, being the biggest of those. But, not just hacks, but also, attacks on Bitcoin in some ways when you start seeing coinbase doing transaction tracing, coin tracing. That sort of, what motivates us. And what we’re doing is basically, doing something that Bitcoin has enabled for a long time, but that nobody’s actually taken advantage of. In some ways, we’re not inventing something new, we’re just trying to fully realize what Bitcoin has sort of, made possible since the beginning, practically.
John: What is the experience like for people using the software?
Richard: It’s gonna be a little different than maybe what they expect. You’re not going to necessarily go to a webpage to do your trading. You’re going to download an application, and that application will put you on the P2P network to do your exchange. After that, it’s gonna be a little bit like Prep’s local Bitcoin, if any of your listeners are familiar with that, you’re gonna either place an ad to buy or sell Bitcoin, or you’re gonna accept an ad, take an offer to buy or sell Bitcoin. But then, after that, the trade is just mediated by the software, and it’s conducted between those two people directly. So, let’s say that I’m buying Bitcoin and I take an ad, then I’m going to receive an encrypted message, the banking details of that person, and an assurance that they’ve locked their Bitcoin into a multi sig address. That’s a little behind the scenes, but what it means is that you can be assured that the Bitcoin are waiting for you and they can’t be taken back by the seller until you’ve sent your cash, you’ve sent your national currency in whatever way you’ve both agreed. Then, that person, when they see it, for instance, you’ll have a bank account, and you’ll send the money to that bank account in whatever way you guys decided, and then you shall release the Bitcoin, and then you’ll basically, both confirm that it’s a successful trade and Boom! You’re done. What is interesting about that interaction is they’re in the happy path, we say, in the path where everybody is behaving properly. There is no third-party involved. It’s all mediated by the network in-between two people. Now, of course, people aren’t always trustworthy, you have to, especially when you’re dealing with the legacy banking system, you always have to worry about the cash part of the transaction. The Bitcoin is, is fine, but the cash part is open to interpretation, and you can get conflict there. So, that’s why there’s a third party on this multi sig address, the two traders, and then the third is an arbitrator that had been previously agreed to. That’s the person that basically, will help mediate the interaction between the two parties if there’s a conflict. And It isn’t always fraud, it could be somebody went on vacation, or they lost their computer you know, they dropped their computer, there are many things. So, that’s why, there’s really no automated way to handle that situation, you really need a third-party. And then, the key is to make sure it isn’t a single third-party. In the case of like, a local Bitcoins, the only third-party is local Bitcoins. But that makes them a central point of attack, especially from a, like from a government for instance. That’s probably, maybe some of your listeners have heard about what’s happened in Germany, where they basically, pulled out of the market because there was so much ambiguity about the regulation. We think we avoid that by basically, taking away that central party.
John: There’s a lot of stuff to go over there, but just on that point, is there like, a marketplace for arbitrators themselves, then, where people can find the list of arbitrators, and can anyone be an arbitrator in that case?
Richard: Yeah. I mean, that’s, that’s key to the whole idea of being decentralized, anybody can become an arbitrator. Now, you’ll probably have different levels of privacy, because theoretically, you could have sort of, an anonymous arbitrator. But, I think for there to be a real market, people are going to favor arbitrators that are more publicly known.
Richard: But, there’ll be a constellation of them, and the way we’re sort of, specking out this trade protocol, each person who’s buying or selling will pick the arbitrator. There’s a pool of arbitrators, they’ll sort of, create their own pool of arbitrators. And then, when the match is made, you’ll just look for an overlap in the arbitrators that both sides agree on. And then, there’ll be some deterministic, random way to pick which one, so. There are certain exploits if it was always going to be a certain one.
John: Yeah, I’ve heard of a technique where each party picks an arbitrator, and then those two arbitrators decide between themselves, an arbitrator.
Richard: Oh yeah, that’s actually a clever way to do it, too. Some of that arbitration-picking, we have it specked out in our white paper, but we do expect you know, experience will, will help guide us to really refine that part of it.
John: Your team put together a pretty comprehensive risk analysis document outlining many of the things that could go wrong when people use the software, which is something that I don’t really see very often in many open source projects or the software in general. So, what are some of the risks that people should be aware of when they’re using Bitsquare?
Richard: Well that, that was originally put together by Manfred Karrer who is our founder, and really, the, the driving force behind this project. When you’re dealing with money, it is important to really look through these cases, and many of the risks you have to look out for are certainly not unique to a Bitsquare system, but, an example is chargebacks. That’s the one that is most often cited as a problem with a peer to peer financial exchange. And that, and, and that’s really very specific to the national jurisdiction you’re in, too. Some jurisdictions, like the United States is probably, one of the, it’s usually phrased as most consumer friendly. People can claw back their money, and almost no questions asked, if you’re using a credit card, or you’re using PayPal, or some similar thing. It’s actually, kind of hard in the US. That’s why, I think in the US, most people currently, at least from my last look on local Bitcoins used for instance, cash in the bank, to get around that problem of chargebacks later in that process. So, chargeback, just to explain, is just when the money gets transferred from one bank to the other, and then the person goes to their bank a week later, a month later, and says, I take that back, or you know, my bank account was hacked, or they make up some story. Ultimately, in the worst case scenario, you’d actually, have to go to small claims court to get that money back. So, as much as possible, we’d wanna avoid those scenarios by just not supporting payment systems, so legacy systems that allow chargeback. And then, other national jurisdiction, I mean, this is really an international project, that is less of a problem, so.
John: So, in that case then, what payment options do you recommend for people who are using Bitsquare?
Richard: We’re gonna do something similar to what local Bitcoins did where we’re going to compile a table of known successful payment systems.
John: Oh, okay.
Richard: And best practices. And, some of this will be for the community to decide, too. The other protection is to just keep the amounts low at first. We’re gonna definitely not scale this up amount wise very fast until we’ve been able to really get a good handle on what works and what doesn’t from that regard, because anybody who’s, for instance, actually hacked into somebody’s bank account, they’re not looking to make $20, or $100, they’re really looking to cash the whole thing out you know, thousands of dollars. So, as long as we keep the amounts low while we’re figuring out the chargeback landscape in each jurisdiction, then I think that that will give us some heads up on what works and what doesn’t. So, keeping amounts low, that’s one way. The other way we deal with this is by, there’s something called a Sybil attack, I’m not sure how familiar people are with that, but the idea is that in any kind of distributed peer-to-peer system, you can end up with a lot of fake user accounts you know, people who create a thousand user accounts. They could do something that steals somebody’s money, or they could be dishonest in some way, and then just go to the next account. So, one way we try to prevent Sybil attacks, people creating lots of sort of, bogus accounts, is there will be some, there’s a concept of a registration, but it isn’t like, a centralized registration process, it’s more of what we call a blind hash of your payment details. So, that means that you hash say, your name and your payment account, and that’s what you register with, with some amount of Bitcoin as sort of, a guarantee that you don’t just do this a million times. And then if you do for instance, do something that violates the trade protocol, you don’t respond to the arbitrator, or you know, you do something more against the system, then that will invalidate that registration. To get another registration you would have to open a new bank account. And, there’s really a finite, in any jurisdiction, gonna be a finite number of banks, and if you do that a lot anyway, it’s gonna certainly, put you under the microscope from government standpoint, so. It’s really, it’s not the only defense we have, but it’s a way to just prevent arbitrary large number of account registration being made.
John: The details that people register could just be like, fake, right?
Richard: They could, but those registration details are gonna be unblinded to the person you trade with, so if you don’t give, that’s why it’s your payment details.
John: Oh, it’s unblinded after. Okay.
Richard: Yeah, but only between the trading parties, so that’s, that’s key. So, even though it’s, you could say that there’s a little bit of a leak of privacy, it’s, what’s different about it, is from a privacy standpoint, is there’s no way to do sort of, mass surveillance. I mean, everybody who trades will have some leaking of their privacy as a necessary way to transfer their funds through the legacy banking system. But, there will be no way from a privacy standpoint, to monitor, there won’t be a central place to subpoena for instance, and say, give me all your trade data, or give me all your user base.
John: Yeah. So, if someone does, say use a bank account to register, would they be able to use more private payment methods afterwards, like cash, or money orders? Cause like, some people in general just have concern with giving up bank details because there’s bank fraud and things that can happen. Just being able to make ACH requests out of an account you know, just knowing the account number, so.
Richard: No, you’re right, and I think, for instance, taking the United States as an example, I would expect to see less bank-to-bank transfer registrations, and more cash in bank, or money order kind of registration. And, if it’s a money order registration, then it is a little less prone to fraud in some ways than it would be, because you know, there’s a different way to confirm that, you wouldn’t have to confirm that with a bank account. In Sweden, where I’m living now, they have a way where you can, it’s a bit like Gualala, perhaps, where you can actually register a phone number and do, just basically, send money to a phone number, and that doesn’t leak quite the same amount of privacy that way, either.
John: Yeah. No, that’s interesting. So, I guess, all of those kinds of details for end users, is that available now, or will it be available in the near future?
Richard: We’re still in Alpha, so we’re at a .1 alpha. Manfred started the project in March and brought most of us on in the summer. So, he’s basically, self-funded the .1 release, which is a alpha, you can download it now on Windows, Mac, or Linux, and then, and run it, but it’s, like I said, it’s only in alpha, it’s running on the test net. We’re now actually, crowd funding for the next round. I’ll get into that later. What isn’t implemented for instance is the arbitration isn’t implemented. It’s basically, just putting in offers on the distributed network, and locking up some test net coins in a multi sig address. But, you can kind of, get a flavor for it, and I do encourage people to just download it, or you can go on Github if you wanna build it yourself. Look through the code.
John: Okay. So, is that two of two multi sig, or?
Richard: It’s two of three, because the third is your arbitrator but, right now, right, there’s just a fixed arbitrator. The arbitration isn’t implemented. It’s designed, but it isn’t turned on yet, so.
John: Oh, when you say fix, so is that someone at the project who is kind of, taking on that role right now?
Richard: Yeah. I mean, in our testing, we’re not testing arbitration; we’re just testing the basic distributed order book.
Richard: But, that’s coming up in the next couple of releases is to get that turned on for the arbitration.
John: Okay. So, in general then I guess, what is the technology that’s being used to make all of this possible?
Richard: Yeah, that’s a good question. From a Bitcoin standpoint, it’s pretty straightforward, it’s multi sig, two of three multi sig, that’s the wallet that holds the accounts that are being traded. From a p2p standpoint, we’re using a distributed hash tables, so DHT, the same technology used for BitTorrent. Beyond that, it’s just regular private key, public key encryption to transfer messages between people. We’re actually, using something called, TomP2P, so that’s our underlying layer that runs the DHT, and that’s a great project. For Bitcoin, we’re using Bitcoin J which is Mike Hearn’s Bitcoin library. It’s been really useful. And then, yeah, that’s, that’s pretty much our, what we use for encryption as well.
John: Okay. Cool. So, when I think of distributed hash tables like you mentioned, I think of BitTorrent. Is this software like BitTorrent where users have to be online at the same time for files to be shared through the network, or is there any concept of asynchronous communication there?
Richard: In our .1 alpha, there, there, actually, it has to be synchronous, but that’s just another step in our milestones. The next version will have an idea of a permanent for that stuff, so if you think about it in a BitTorrent sense, normally, you have to be online, but you can replicate your order information, so there is a way to do this in an offline way, at least to have orders offline. So, that’s not currently implemented, but that’s in our roadmap.
John: Okay. So, now long do orders stay on the books for before they’re invalid?
Richard: That right now, it’s sort of, until cancelled. So, you put an order up, and can basically, stay there until it cancelled, but because this is running as an application on your computer, we certainly foresee alternatives to that if you wanna put it up for a certain amount of time, or you wanna somehow, monitor the market, and to do all those fancy things that people do. This wouldn’t really be a system for day traders; this is really for people who want to get in and out of Bitcoin in a sort of, long term sense.
Richard: But, there are ways. There are ways that you know; somebody could use this if they were more in a, more of a trader and less of an investor.
John: So, what other kinds of metadata is associated with the order, like is there any concept of location of the sellers, since maybe it makes more sense for me to trade with somebody in my own country than somewhere where international wires would be expensive, or something like that?
Richard: Yeah, that’s part of the metadata, so, so part of the metadata is the set of arbitrators that you would agree to, but also, the other one is the set of banking methods, or payment methods that you would support. So, you may support only a like, a Swedish bank euro system, or a US Postal money order, so that would be part of your metadata. When you’re looking at your order book, it’s gonna filter it based on your criteria you previously set up. So, so, even though the network is global and international, you’re only going to see a slice of that that filters is what you’re gonna wanna trade with.
John: Okay. Interesting, yeah, that makes a lot of sense. So, you mentioned a little bit earlier that you kind of, envision this system being used not just for Bitcoin, but other crypto currencies, and at the same time, this system kind of, reminds me of OpenBazaar, which markets itself as more of a general marketplace than just a Bitcoin exchange. Have you thought about expanding the functionality of your software so that people can offer to sell more than just dollars in exchange for Bitcoin, or other crypto currencies?
Richard: Yeah, it’s something we’ve talked about. We’re really focused on getting our the basic crypto to national currency exchange, but of course, we like to dream about what we want to do next, and I think altcoins of some sort is a possibility. It would be a lot easier in some ways than exchanging a national currency just because you’ve got block chains to reference. As far as OpenBazaar goes, we’re very much inspired by the same idea as OpenBazaar; we’re just taking a slightly different take on that by focusing on currency over goods. Part of the reason we did that is with goods, you sort of, run into the eBay situation where arbitration becomes a lot more intensive you know, did they ship you the good, it’s not just did they ship it, it’s is it broken, was it what you asked for. So, we’re not, we really didn’t want to get into that, we wanted to stay pretty focused on something where it’s easily arbitrated. Part of the philosophy there, is when you have very strong arbitration system that really can be done without a lot of ways to scam it. You can really build a network that way, and people won’t, won’t scam it, basically. Well-done arbitration should really never be invoked, except for like, when somebody goes on vacation accidently, or something. Pretty simple systems.
John: Yeah. So, I guess in that case, for people who want to prove that they shipped the goods, so to speak, and made the wire transfer, is that just as simple as showing an arbitrator a receipt from the bank, or something like that?
Richard: Yeah. I mean, this will be developed by the, by the pool of arbitrators. I think a best practices will have to develop. But, I think already, if you look on local Bitcoins there are some pretty good best practices, and for somebody to fake a wire, you know, it may be possible, but you can call the bank, you can give a receipt number. There are, they’ll have to be ways like that to really make arbitration deterministic. You don’t want there to be a lot of interpretation.
John: It is best if it’s just a binary like, yes it happened, no it didn’t kinda thing?
Richard: Right. Right.
John: Yeah. So, cool. It’s good to hear that you guys are staying focused on that, cause it seems like that’s a really valuable niche. Especially as it’s not just like governments that local Bitcoin has to worry about, it’s common hackers. Apparently, they got hacked recently and user funds were stolen, and malware was distributed to the users, so that just goes to show you what kind of a risk central points of failures can represent to the users of these marketplaces.
Richard: Yeah, that’s really unfortunate. We really you know, like the local Bitcoins guys. That’s a good project, and it’s sad, but it’s almost inevitable once you create these central points of attack, and the monetary value goes up high enough, it just creates this huge incentive to be hacked. It really is, I mean, if Target, a huge cooperation can’t prevent their very critical credit card information from being hacked, then how can smaller companies can prevent? It’s not really an easy problem.
John: On that topic, do you know anything about the security practices of the developers? I know it’s very early versions of the software, so maybe it hasn’t gone through too much audits for, for bugs, and the like yet, but it sounds like you’re using pretty well supported libraries or at least, developing the Bitcoin portion, and peer to peer portion of the software, but I mean, so, are the releases signed? Are they distributed through you know, at least, SSL secured connections, stuff like that?
Richard: yeah, we’ve got a pretty good system for doing that now, but we do plan on evolving that to you know, be easy for people to check the signed releases, and that’s what’s up there not on our website, is our signed releases. And, as far a security audit goes, that’s in our roadmap to really reach out to the community and get some security audits, but we’re, part of what we’re doing, I mean, the big security from a Bitcoin standpoint is that everybody has their own wallet, and when they do a trade they, they create a, they create a multi sig wallet. So, the multi sig aspect alone gives you some security, so even if one particular user had their computer completely compromised, the worst that the hacker could do with respect to their trade wallet, their multiple sig wallet, would be to approve a trade. So, you know, at worst, the hacker could make one trade go though. It isn’t like there’s a big pool of money there, and if they you know, if a user does have a big pool of money, they’re gonna keep it in whatever offline wallet, or whatever wallet they want, so there isn’t there, even their own wallet, they’re basically, only trading, they’re only transferring into the Bitsquare system what they want to trade, so that also reduces the risk. But, no, absolutely, we’re gonna reach out to the, and get as much auditing as we can. That’s also why we’re volunteer project, and we’re open source, free open source software, and that’s part of our, I think a necessity for anything like this is that it can be reviewed. The code can be reviewed, and we’ll definitely, that’s a high priority for us to get done. As we, as we get, especially, right now we’re on test net, but as we start getting ready for a beta that’s gonna run on the main net, then that’s a critical thing for us to do.
John: Excellent. So, on that note, what are some near term, and long term goals for Bitsquare?
Richard: Sure. Well I mean, near term, we’re getting ready for a .2 release. And this, this has some, what I mentioned before, the permanence, permanence of the offers, so people don’t have to be online at the same time to look at the offers and to trade. Down the road, we have a roadmap, so if you go to bit square.io and look at the roadmap you can see sort of, our plan leading up to 1.0 release, which we expect to have ready sometime in 2015, and you know, that’s gonna take you through arbitration and improvements, improvements on that side of things. Obviously, we’re really focused on 1.0. Long term I think you know, you can see what, you, we’ve certainly thought about, but we’re not too focused on what happens after 1.0. Like I said, we can look at some things, like altcoins, and putting this on a cell phone would be great, getting a mobile app. I mean, that’s more, more like a long term aspect for us.
John: Yeah, so you’ve mentioned the crowdfunding a couple of times now. Could you maybe tell us a little bit more about what your goals are there, and, and you know, all the details associated with that?
Richard: Sure. Yeah, and I, I think it’s sort of, relevant for this talk because we’re using Lighthouse, which is itself, a peer to peer crowd funding app.
John: Oh, very cool.
Richard: This is Mike Hearn’s project. So, we really, we really thought philosophically, and sort of from a design stand, design/pattern standpoint, Lighthouse was very compatible with our project, and it’s new, it’s brand new, it just came out, but we really wanted to take a chance with it, and support Mike you know, by showing that this could be a way that you could fund distributed projects like ours, it decentralized projects like ours. So, we basically, have a crowdfunding campaign going to fund incremental releases, so we’re not asking for a large sum to fund though the entire end of the project. We’re hoping to sort of, pioneer this idea of supporting projects, free open source projects in an innovative way, so we’re only asking for the funds to get us to our next release, so that we can create a tight loop between actually delivering and then asking for the next milestone funding, and, and until we get 1.0 on our roadmap. The current campaign runs until February 9th. We’re asking for a total of 150 Bitcoin. We’ve already got some great pledges; I think we’re about 26% of the way there. And, I really encourage anybody who is interested in decentralized applications to look at Lighthouse. It’s a really innovative project, and it’s well worth the community’s time to support. Mike created it to really support Bitcoin itself in core development. I think he’s really got something. It really seems like the right way to do it. It’s a decentralized application, which means that nobody is holding the funds, it’s all in a, it’s all on the block chain, basically. So, that’s very exciting for us. We’re happy to see that we’ve gotten some support. One of our more notable supporters has been Olivier Yenson who also is a supporter of Mike Hearn’s Lighthouse project. He put up the bounty, $100K bounty that Mike is getting some of to build Lighthouse.
John: Yeah. I’ve been using the Lighthouse software, just kind of, playing around, importing files, creating projects, stuff like that. It’s a really well done piece of software, and big props for Olivier for you know, helping to fund that, and also, for contributing some initial funding to your own Lighthouse project. And so, where could people go to learn more about Bitsquare, your crowdfunding campaign, and what is the best way for people to get involved if they wanna help out with the project?
Richard: Sure. We have a website, it’s bitsquare.io, and if you go bitsquare.io/crowdfunding, that tells you all about our Lighthouse campaign, or you can just write email@example.com if you wanna get in touch and, and we’re always looking for developers, testers, I mean, whatever your skills are, we are very open and inclusive project, and we’re really looking for as much help as we can get. I mean, we have a newsletter. Sign up for our newsletter if you just wanna track our project you can do that from the website. And, yeah, we just, anybody who is interested in this, we really encourage you to get involved. We have Wham parties, we call them, so this is times when anybody can get on the bit square network at once and do some sort of, mock trades. And, yeah, that’s a fun thing to do, it really kinda, hopefully, gives people a taste for the future.
John: Awesome. Well, thanks a lot for your time, Richard, and good luck with the Lighthouse campaign.
Richard: Thanks a lot, John.
John: Thanks for tuning in to episode 10 of P2P’s podcast. If you have any comments or questions, you can reach me through the contact page of my website at p2pconnects.us. Until next time.